Time for a clutch

[john]

The OEM part with 51k miles is still holding, but I can feel it getting ready to let go.

So - please recommend a clutch for me. I want to keep the dual mass flywheel in order to keep the noise down and driveability up (my 19 yr old son is driving it now, and my 16 yr old daughter is chomping at the bit).

I used the ACT 2600 in all of my DSMs and had great luck with them. I used a 6 puck RPS in the supra and didn't really like it - the puck setups are seemingly either on or off.

I'd like something which will hold somewhere in the neightborhood of 500+ crank ft/lbs yet has a full face organic disk. And when swapping the LGT clutch, is the OEM throwout bearing recommended or is it ok to use whatever comes from the clutch vendor?

And for what it's worth, I don't plan on launching the car very much. I just want something which will hold the power.

Thanks.

[Dookie]

Heard good stuff from ACT.

http://www.fredbeansparts.com/servlet/the-1410/ACT-Subaru-Legacy-GT/Detail

[john]

Thanks Dook. And I love you, btw.

[Dookie]

:thx:

[havanisda]

:banme:

[Dookie]

:lol:

[TSi+WRX]

Get a room, freaks! :lol:

Thanks for this one, john and Dookie.

I also had great love for the ACT2600 on my DSMs, and this is looking like it'll be a good option for me, too, when the time comes.

Now at just under 36K miles, with at least two 4K slip-launches per week.

I think it's finally catching up to her. I can feel it wanting to let go, too.

[john]

:thx:


What does this say? I can't pick it out, even with my readers on.

[john]

Am I correct in assuming that teh 06-07 WRX oem flywheel isn't dual mass?

[havanisda]

Some1 got embarrassed & deleted my post.

http://media.bigoo.ws/content/glitter/cartoon/cartoon_413.gif

[Dookie]

Nope, just phucking with you.:lol:

[Dookie]

What does this say? I can't pick it out, even with my readers on.

It said..."I love you too, mang".












:lol:

[havanisda]

U can prove that's true by puttin that pic back up. Ball's in your court. :rofl:

[Dookie]

Let's leave the ghey pics for the "Big Boy Forums". ;)

[havanisda]

That wasn't BBF material. 2 guys hugging? That was maybe PG-13, we've all seen worse on cable but u saw it as a personal attack so u took it down. You're pseudo-swearing was far worse and u let that stand. :tdown:

[Dookie]

....and then?

[havanisda]

I made my point, it was a joke and u know that. It wasn't vulgar. We always have joked about this topic and I don't think it warranted deletion but your the





http://www.legaljuice.com/Da_Judge.gif

[Dookie]

:lol: :lol:Ah-oh....teh internet is serious business yo.

Dude, why to you take everything so serious?:confused:

[havanisda]

So I'm not supposed 2 challenge any1 when I feel I was edited unnecessarily?
If some1 edits your post on .com u never say a word even if u think it's wrong?
Who's the 1 takin it seriouosly? I'm not the 1 that deleted the pic just cuz I can. You took a joke (about you) seriously enuf 2 remove it.
If it was so bad why don't u show the pic 2 @ least 1 of the other mods and we can get their opinion?

[Dookie]

1. You made a pic joke about John and I, so I was just joking back with you.
2. You know I normally don't edit peoples post unless it's called for. In your case, refer to #1.
3. I can't put your pic back up, because it was delete. So sorry to delete your ghey pic.:cool:

[havanisda]

Josh is havin a sale on ACT, ends on 6/26.

http://lgtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113205

[john]

I really hate it when a vendor won't post pricing in their "we are having a crazy sale on _____" posts. But I did pm him - thanks.

[TSi+WRX]

All-right, guys.....

I'm leaning towards this kit, with the '06/'07 OEM WRX flywheel - with daily-driveability being my top concern:

http://www.fredbeansparts.com/servlet/the-1100/ACT-Subaru-Legacy-GT/Detail

Figure I'll get the dealership to put this in for me, and I'll come out with a bill of about $1500, when all's said and done.

So here's the question.

On Fred Beans' website, it lists that package rated at 420 ft.-lbs.

My "Stage II and slightly plus" comes in on the dyno at 275 wTQ. This is on a dyno where a stock STI or stock EVO MR comes in at a flat 200, and a Pro-Tuned "Stage II+" STI comes in at 290. [ Yes, these are figures from the same dyno, same operator, vehicles done on the same day, pretty much back-to-back, actually. ]

Y'all think that's really durable enough to hold?

Now that I've had my fun with Winky, I don't think I'll be near as rough with her, but I still expect a few slip-launches from time to time. I'm, honestly, somewhat abusive....but I do expect this combo to last longer than my stocker (now 4+ years, with at least 26K miles worth of "Stage II" abuse, averaging one, if not two, 4K slip-launches per week).

Is that realistic?

[havanisda]

I'm guessin they're rating of 420 ft/lbs is a flywheel estimate. So u need the equation 2 figure out if 275 @ the wheels is more than 420 @ the fly?

[john]

That's the hardware I'm looking aw as well, tsi. Fred Beans price for the clutch & oem wrx flywheel is $780. I've found the flywheel other places for around $300, and the clutch from Josh on .com was $790 during his sale, more like $825 after the sale was done. My stock clutch is holding 400 ft/lbs at the wheels right now - I think the ACT part will work well for me.

I'll just keep my fingers crossed that I"ll make it to Minnesota on the OEM part,, but will probably get the crossover pipe before the trip.

[TSi+WRX]

I'm guessin they're rating of 420 ft/lbs is a flywheel estimate. So u need the equation 2 figure out if 275 @ the wheels is more than 420 @ the fly?

^ That's what I don't know....

Let's say a factory STI is 300 at the fly.

Given that it pulls 200 on the dyno, does that mean I need to multiply by 1.5 to get any resultant number to be comparable?

I really doubt that I'm over 400 ft.lbs. at the fly - but if I do that simple math, it's getting close....

:dunno:

[john]

Remember the old rule of thumb? 20% loss through an AWD drivetrain? I never could swallow that one, esp once the base HP and TQ numbers are driven up.

Regardless - I think that clutch & flywheel combo will be more than sufficient. I'm hoping so anyway, as I won't be swapping in another replacement for many, many miles.

[Dookie]

All else fails, check with the Manufactures website.


This is the Part you guys are looking at - SB5-HDMM
EDIT: This link takes you to a default screen. Type in 2006, LGT for the Vehicle information because the 2005 model year does not show up.
http://www.advancedclutch.com/products/clutchkits.aspx?prod_id=2419#2419


It has 32% more clamping power over stock, IMO I believe that would do just find for your daily street driving.





:)

[TSi+WRX]

^ Looks good, guys. Thanks for the reassurances! :)

[Dookie]

....;)

[VoodooGTR]

For my impreza, several months back. I had to replace my clutch and I also decided to swap out my flywheel in the process. I decided under alot or research to go with the Exedy flywheel because Exedy is the manufacture for OEM Subaru clutches and they are cheaper in price than OEM. I also went with ACT flywheel under alot of research. I love this combo and you can feel it like riding a Big Boy being droped from a B-29.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Thanks for that tip! I'll look into it!

[john]

you can feel it like riding a Big Boy being droped from a B-29.

Umm, what?

[havanisda]

you can feel it like riding a Big Boy being dropped from a B-29.


http://lefteyeonthemedia.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/dr-phil-mcgraw.jpg

[VoodooGTR]

The John Wayne Movie, I THINK! When he is dropped from a B-29 and riding the WWII Big Boy Atomic Bomb. Meaning you feel alot of POWER! MWhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhahahahahahahahaha. something like that

[Dookie]

I got it, but that's something I tell all the ladies, not other guys.....:lol: :lol:

[TSi+WRX]

I'm going to order the ACT "Modified Street" plus OEM '06/'07 WRX fly kit (SB5-HDMM / 12342AA090) tomorrow.

Dealer quoted $700 for the install, 3/4 of a day, free loaner.

Wish me luck, guys!

[john]

Nice. I'm interested in your feedback vs stock, for peda pressure and engagement.

As an aside, there's a guy locally who quoted me $225 for the install of both parts.

[TSi+WRX]

^ You're damned lucky! :lol: My buddy flat out refused, knowing full well how involved it would be ( and that he doesn't, currently, have time on his hands, that bastard! :lol: )

I'll be sure to offer feedback, but I'm like you - I didn't mind the pedal pressure of the ACT2600 in my last DSM, even for in-town daily driving. :)

[Dookie]

As an aside, there's a guy locally who quoted me $225 for the install of both parts.

Dammmmmmmmn!!!!:eek: That's cheap!


Subscribed to TSI's feedback.

[VoodooGTR]

are you fracking kidding me! The jerks quoted me 600 and charged me 800. then I used my "military" trump card and paid 700. That was only Labor. Luck you!

[TSi+WRX]

Parts (SB5 HDMM, ACT "Modified Street" - and 12342AA090, OEM '06/'07 WRX fly) arrived today. Order was placed Tuesday AM with Jeremy at Fred Beans.

I've used them once before, and they continue to get the job done, with an e-mailed tracking as-promised, not a single thing missed, including great service attitude. :)

We'll see how the install goes with my dealership! Yes, I'm kinda chewing my nails.....

[john]

I gotta ask - why a dealer install?

[havanisda]

Still under warranty? I know you're less than 60k or is that irrelevant cuz a clutch is a wearable part?

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/Marioftw/Facepalm-1.gif

[TSi+WRX]

It's really the most convenient option for me - that's really about it. :o

My buddy currently doesn't have the time (and won't, for at least another month - and it's starting to become a safety issue, with the car not holding power in virtually any gear, once I tip into boost), and I haven't ever tackled a clutch-job on a Subaru before....

As for warranty? :lol:

I decided, long ago, that this would be "pay to play." :) Gotta be honest about it, right? :)

[TSi+WRX]

OK, just done.

Only the some 4 miles back home, through afternoon rush traffic - all stop-and-go, as-usual, so there's really not much to say, yet.

I stalled her coming out of the dealership's parking space. Yep, barely 3 ft. traveled. :lol: My clutch's been "getting there" for such a long time, I think, that I was totally ill-prepared for a properly catching clutch. :lol:

Did fine after that, although I'm still figuring things out a bit, and it's, of course, still breaking in. A couple of rather harsh engagements, but Anna didn't complain.

Aside from where the clutch engages in the pedal travel, there's honestly not much difference between it and the stocker, in terms of feel. Slightly higher pedal pressure, but I'm a bad judge of that, as I never complained of the ACT2600, even in the daily grind of stop-and-go.

I tried to think about how people who don't have over-developed left legs might fare with this setup, compared to stock, and honestly, I don't think that anyone would mind.

More to come.

[TSi+WRX]

Still a couple of rougher-than-usual 1-to-2 shifts here and there (more reflective of my technique, or lack thereof :p , than anything else), but overall, break-in has been going very well. I'm definitely getting much better at the 1-to-2, in terms of smoothness, but I'm still trying to learn the 2-to-3 heel-and-toe.

No chatter in 1st any more, either.

My left leg still has yet to complain. I actually figured that after a weekend's worth of not driving her I'd notice the change, but if anything, it's made me think that this clutch's pedal pressure is even closer to stock than what I thought, before.

I'm close to the 100-mile mark.

[john]

Thanks for the update. I'm looking forward to my replacement. The OEM part hasn't started slipping yet, and I'm actually "using" it from time to time.

My daughter's boyfriend has a body kit'ed 91 honda or acura, RWD. He wants to drift with it. He revved on me so I let him smell my exhaust. A lot of it. :)

As an aside, he's looking at an EVO 8. I have been gently encouraging him... :D :D

How bad was your 1-2 chatter? No input shaft noise due to getting rid of the dual mass part?

[TSi+WRX]

^ If there's extra noise, I don't hear it - but my hearing is bad on the order of my butt-dyno being bad. It's not reliable, at all. :lol: So it's either there is a little noise, and I'm not hearing it, or, alternatively, it's not there at all.

I've been keeping my ears peeled, though. No stereo, windows up, low AC (boy does it get hot, for a fat guy like me!). But my tires are rather loud, and my exhaust is, ironically, its loudest/boomiest when at lower revs.

Chatter in first gear wasn't bad at all. My daughter didn't even go "what's that?" which she'll do, if she hears/feels something really strange (i.e. when I stalled out). Even if it had continued to chatter like that, I wouldn't have said that it would've been unacceptable for a daily-driver, especially as it only happened when I was really trying to creep along with rush-hour traffic, say, if a grandma who couldn't lift her foot off the brakes was in front of me. Over the last two driving sessions, I got a better feel for where things are, and I can now creep along with no chatter at the start of the roll, with little to no throttle input.

The rough shift up to second was purely because I was too *****-footed and didn't give her enough throttle, total problem of technique.

Like I've said before, bro, I love the three-pedal dance, and I've been driving manuals for as long as I could drive...but I'm still learning, every day. ;)

[kagenmateer]

So have you dumped it yet?

[TSi+WRX]

^ Not yet.

I'm low-mileage...all city driving, and my commute is only about 10 miles a day.

Although that should help accelerate break-in, I'm still taking it easy. :)

[kagenmateer]

How 'bout now?

[havanisda]

How 'bout now?

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/peerpressure-1.jpg

[TSi+WRX]

I haven't side-stepped it, yet. :)

Slip-launched it once from 4.5K, the car now feels like new.

And in-retrospect, I definitely had started to get some slip in 5th, rolling on the throttle from 3.5K into boost. The car now drives like it was, new, on the highway.

It's now been about 500 miles. I've gotten *a lot* better at the 3-to-2 heel-and-toe, I love the single-mass fly.

I've also gotten a lot smoother around town.

No chatter (as long as I'm not the one making the mistakes), no noises.

About the only time that I still have trouble is backing up. :)

[kagenmateer]

Sounds like it all worked out. Good job broseph.

[BigNickGT]

I just ordered the ACT Modified Street Clutch.

http://www.raceinspired.com/p-9818-act-heavy-duty-modified-street-clutch-kit-subaru-legacy-gt-2005-2006.aspx

and I'm thinking I should just get my stock flywheel machined. Has anyone ever heard of the stock fly wheel being warped and not machinable?

[Dookie]

You can have you flywheel turned just like your rotors, but then again it comes down to how many miles do you have on it. If you have alot of miles, I would recommend a new flywheel for safty reasons just like your rotors.

Remember that your flywheel generates alot of heat too.