Hi all!

[SubieChik]

Hello All! I am new to this whole forum thing here. I just traded in my '05 2.5i for a '06 Spec. B. I do believe it was a good move one my part :) I wanted an '07 cause of the blue interior, but I wanted an '06 because it is way more limited than the '07. So I decided to wait till I found a used one in great condition.....so that I did. I found a perfect one at only a fraction of the price that it was a year ago (suprisingly). It is completely stock for now, and might be for a little while because we have a little one on the way (you know how much they cost :rolleyes: ). I think all I am going to do right now is lower it, get the windows tinted, put on an SPT intake and get an exhaust. Anyone have any suggestions on some good sounding exhausts?? I love the way Subarus sound with aftermarket exhausts and so far I think that the magnaflow one sounds pretty good! Thanks ahead of time for any and all suggestions!

~Billie (SubieChik)

[Bskey]

Welcome! It'll be good to have a female perspective around here! Congrats on the Spec B!

For exhaust, that's such a personal choice, I say find some sound clips or locals and hear it out. I love my HogZaust, andfor the price, you can't beat the sound!

[NALegacy]

Welcome, congrats. on the car and the little one.

As far as exhausts go...I like the Stromung, and a good job on a custom exhaust is a good way to go also. Just make sure you use a shop that knows what it is doing.

[KA82]

how'dy - welcome

surprised the hounds havent seen this yet


which # did you get?

[Drift Monkey]

omghi2u

[Bskey]

Here it goes......Dookie, where are you?

[SubieChik]

It's number 255

[Dookie]

Here it goes......Dookie, where are you?

Why you gatta be play'n me out like that? I'm always nice to the chicas, I only start the leg humping when I see pictures of them. :lol:


Subiechik - Welcome! and :tup: for being a chica with a Subie.














BTW................:anypics:

[Effin Ponderous]

oh jeez, let the angel be...

[Drift Monkey]

ttiwwop

[Bskey]

ttiwwop

Even wikipedia doesnt kow what that is?

[Dookie]

ttiwwop = This thread is worthless without pics


fixed

[Bskey]

Ah! I concur!

[kagenmateer]

Hello and welcome. The SPT is a little temperamental with tunes, so I recommend AEM for quiet or AVO/Perrin for loud if you plan on ever doing nething else (IMHO). I got a great deal on the best sounding suby exhaust I've ever heard. It was on a GB at LegacyGT.com. The company is Xo2. I'm jealous of ur car btw!

[SubieChik]

Hello and welcome. The SPT is a little temperamental with tunes, so I recommend AEM for quiet or AVO/Perrin for loud if you plan on ever doing nething else (IMHO). I got a great deal on the best sounding suby exhaust I've ever heard. It was on a GB at LegacyGT.com. The company is Xo2. I'm jealous of ur car btw!

Thanks for the input. I'm jealous of my car too :D Just kidding. Seriously though.....I don't know what exhaust I am going to go with yet. There are just too many to choose from. Haha. But they all have one thing in coomomn, the prices are all definately a kick in the stomach though :eek:

[TSi+WRX]

Hello and welcome. The SPT is a little temperamental with tunes, so I recommend AEM for quiet or AVO/Perrin for loud if you plan on ever doing nething else (IMHO).

^ +1 overall.

Search for the "SPT intake" either here or on .com, SubieChik, and you'll quickly see what we mean.

And even though I love my Perrin Short-Ram for the sounds that it makes, I will honestly confess that it's also not the easiest to tune for, with many of the same faults/characteristics as the SPT Short-Ram.

If Short-Rams are your thing, SubieChik, currently, what's favored are either the AVO or the K&N Typhoon. Both should provide excellent results with an "active" :banana: in-cabin aural profile.

[SubieChik]

I mean really short ram isn't necessarily my thing....I would rather have cold air...seens like you get a little more power. The only reason I was going with SPT was because I was hearing so many bad things about it that I called the local Subaru performance shop to clear things up. They pretty much told me that SPT was the way to go right now. I guess I don't know who to follow anymore:confused:

[Bskey]

Subaru obviously has a vested interest in selling SPT, it fills up their warehouse. Take the advice from forum members who will give their unbiased opinion. I have yet to hear good things about the SPT intake. Go with the K&N Typhoon if you want a CAI, otherwise, just get a Perrin or K&N panel filter and call it good. Short ram is really a sounf mod than it is a power mod. If you have a setup that can benefit from a short ram, then it will get that much more from a full CAI.

[SubieChik]

Subaru obviously has a vested interest in selling SPT, it fills up their warehouse.

That wasn't subaru theat told me that. It was a local perfomance shop that specializes in Subarus.

[Bskey]

Really!?! I have heard that the SPT does well on the WRX, so that's where they might get their info. Do they do much work with LGT's?

[SubieChik]

Really!?! I have heard that the SPT does well on the WRX, so that's where they might get their info. Do they do much work with LGT's?

That's probably what they meant. I know that they have worked on a couple but I think they mainly specialize with WRXs

[Bskey]

In my researchI have seen the most consistent results from the CAI K&N Typhoon, and the short ram by Perrin. I personally have the K&N panel filter, as I wouldnt benefit from more airflow just yet. When I do need it, I will surely get the Typhoon.

[kagenmateer]

Thanks for the input. I'm jealous of my car too :D Just kidding. Seriously though.....I don't know what exhaust I am going to go with yet. There are just too many to choose from. Haha. But they all have one thing in coomomn, the prices are all definately a kick in the stomach though :eek:

My CBE was $375 shipped...more of a love tap. Best sound ever!!!!!!!!!! ...of any suby exhaust ever!!!!!!!! ahahahahaha

[Bskey]

^^ That's a great price. Was the quality satisfactory?

[Dookie]

Hog-zawst...FTW!! It only cost $2.00. Beat that!

[kagenmateer]

^^ That's a great price. Was the quality satisfactory?

See for yourself...

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60059&highlight=Xo2

[Dookie]

See for yourself...

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60059&highlight=Xo2

:busted: You posted a .com link.

[TSi+WRX]

SubieChik - If you're going with cold-air, the AEM seems to be very, very popular now. Brother edmundu on .com has had good things to say about it, and he's one of those guys whom I'd trust, implicitly. Thus, if I were going the route of a true cold-air, that's what I'd do.

As for the SPT Short-Ram, if your local shop does mostly work with Imprezas, they could definitely have a different view of SPT products. Many WRX/STI folks consider the SPT label a golden seal, and I would honestly agree with them.

However, in terms of SPT, their offerings for the LGT really were very, very ill-produced and disappointed not only myself, but MANY other LGT enthusiasts as well.

Here, you can see some of my thoughts on the SPT products, with particular focus on the intake -

http://www.legacygt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=324&highlight=intake

( ^ this thread also contains some reference, by me, to the mess that was the first-run SPT LGT cat-back system )

The following thread may also be of some interest to you:

http://www.legacygt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=376&highlight=intake

[Bskey]

Yeah, I forgot about the AEM, which with a good tune, has proven to be great!

[Dookie]

The whole thing about which filters to run and cold air intakes has been beaten to death over on the other side. Bottom line, with the turbo cars anything more than a foam panel filter is a waste of money. There hasn't been enough proof that the others do any better.

Once again on turbo models, cold air intakes, if you want a true cold air intake, get an I/C sprayer system. Whats the point of a cold air intake when air is forced thru a hot I/C? Bottom line, invest in a I/C sprayer system, you'll get more bang for the buck.

[kagenmateer]

:busted: You posted a .com link.

Am I not supposed to do that?!

[SubieChik]

Isn't an I/C sprayer for track use mostly?? That's what I read on Rallitek.

[TSi+WRX]

^ For any type of situation where the IC "sits" and soaks up hot, stale, un-moving air, a sprayer or other type of external cooler will help drastically.

This even applies to just sitting at a too-long stop-light or from a four-way stop where traffic has built-up.

If you're able to log, get a few full driving sessions (not just pulls, but actually log for as long as your laptop's battery will allow - through actual normal driving traffic situations), you'll be shocked, particularly in the winter, how fast your IAT (ntake [A]ir [T]emperature) goes up.

With your stock airbox, which the Subaru engineers have gone to GREAT lengths to design and fabricate, you'll actually note that the rate of heat build-up at the IAT sensor isn't quite as bad as with any type of aftermarket "short ram" type intake. This is chiefly due to the excellent temperature insulation and "isolation" with which this component is designed.

With most "short-ram" systems, the problem is that the car literally sucks-in that hot, under-hood air - which, even with various shielded models (brother Bskey, the K&N Typhoon is actually still a "short-ram," albeit a well-shielded one) - the shield unfortunately either does not seal fully (i.e. SPT), causing rapid leak-through of underhood hot-air, or alternatively doesn't do enough (i.e. K&N Typhoon, yes, it helps to a large degree, but even a true full-seal system - i.e. home-made - can't isolate this area like the stock airbox can).

And since our vehicle does not utilize a true charge-temperature sensor, the ECU bases its timing and other "power variables" off the IAT, located at this most vulnerable position on the intake, and uses an algorithm to calculate the criticals. This is why, to a large degree, our LGTs seem to lose so much power when the weather gets hot and humid out. ;)

If you have a way of monitoring your datalogs in real-time (i.e. using the live analog graphing function on DeltaDash) or have a device that allows you to monitor vehicle criticals, such as the MSD DashHawk, Scanmaster III, or, like me, the GReddy Informeter (I've set my warnings to trip at around 122 deg. F and 158 deg. F. for IAT, respectively), you'll be shocked to see how fast your IAT rises, particularly in the summertime, and particularly with various "short ram" intakes.

A car on the dyno can either be super-cooled with good fan-induced airflow or even be allowed to sit and cool-off between runs. This can lead to not-insignificant power gains via a simple switch-out of the intake assembly to an aftermarket one, which can alter airflow characteristics sufficiently in this area to allow a tuner to extract a measureable and noticeable power improvement. And yes, Dookie, there actually have been before/after graphs and verbal reports of numbers that show this to be true, from multiple sources on .com.

However, whether this will translate to true street-use is the problem. Since our cars do sit in-traffic, at the staging lines, or awaiting take-off down the track, our underhood temps build up rapidly, and this in-turn causes the intake area to rapidly "soak" with heat. Combine this with true heat-soak of our rather small stock intercooler, the end result is significantly pulled-timing and a noticeable decrease in power, even from a "seat of the pants" perspective.

This is, in-translation, why items such as a true cold-air intake, FMIC, intercooler sprayer/cooler, water/meth-injection, etc., can help so much in true "street" situations. [Note here that a larger TMIC has both pros and cons in this situation, and would bear a new thread of discussion in and of itself! :)]

This is also, of course, why you find so many people to prefer staying with the stock airbox - perhaps removing the intake resonator/silencer and also going with a freer-flowing aftermarket panel-filter - especially if they're not planning a significant turbo upgrade. Most will say, [I]and I will agree, that an aftermarket intake on a stock-turbo setup is something that's more of an aural guilty-pleasure rather than a true "power-increaser."

With a larger-turbo setup (especially once it's fully supported by a proper FMIC), an aftermarket intake may become necessary due to a number of factors, which can include spacial (i.e. plumbing) issues, MAF-resolution limitations, etc.

-----------

Per the Perrin Short-Ram.

The problem with this unit is that it seems to be consistently inconsistent. :(

It seems that either the design of the foam cone element and/or its internal baffles and/or the post-MAF sensor silicone piping (no-one exactly knows which part is most at-fault, or if even the interactions are somehow synergistic and thus can't be isolated) induces turbulence at the MAF.

This produces rather unpredictable lean-pleateaus in the manner that yes, we know those plateaus exist, but exactly where they will present on YOUR CAR cannot be predicted, fully, from where they've presented on MY CAR.

This is why a live tune is so highly recommended when *any* aftermarket intake is used with our LGTs, but it honestly carries through with highlight to the Perrin Short-Ram, which has been known to be problematic.

At one point in my car's life, she developed some rather strange knock-activity at mid-low RPM and low-load situations - during the troubleshooting sessions, Jarrad of PDXTuning (note here that the trouble was due to another tuner's fault, and was of no relation to PDXT) sent me a "make do" map to help resolve this problem until I could get my car live-tuned by Tim B.

Despite the intimate relations between PDXTuning and Perrin (and the fact that, by all counts, my "make do" map from Jarrad had accounted for the presence of the Perrin Short-Ram - i.e. that the map he'd sent me was, literally, a semi-custom map), when my car hopped up on the dyno, Tim B. actually aborted my baseline run as the car was showing rather unfavorable A/F ratios. Tim then spent well over two hours to perfect my car's tune, and after he climbed out of the passenger's seat, he said, plainly, that the initial abort, as well as the troublesome tune-session, was due to the Perrin Short-Ram.

[As an aside: lot of the WRX crowd doesn't particularly like the Perrin Short-Ram because airflow limitations start popping up with this unit once they switch to larger turbos. A local with a peanut-eye wagon, with a fully-supported 18G, picked up over 30 wHP and about as much wTQ from simply ditching his Perrin Short-Ram. Luckily, the LGT-specific Perrin unit is more akin to the STI unit, which removes this limitation.]

Yes, I love mine - I love the way it sounds - and I spent good money to get my car tuned so that I could use it safely. :)

[SubieChik]

So you have the AEM?? You said you love yours but never said what you have. Although you did seem to favor the AEM so I am assuming that is what you have...

[ih8vtec13]

He has a Perrin Short Ram.

BTW your Winkey has a short ram :lol:

[Bskey]

Why does he always put my name in BOLD in the middle of his novels when I am wrong? :lol:

TSi+WRX, someone has to keep me grounded when I start spouting off BS! Glad you're here!

btw, I'm going to have to read your post at home after work. I don't have time here to read it, and still get in a full 8 hours :lol:

[SubieChik]

He has a Perrin Short Ram.

BTW your Winkey has a short ram :lol:

Then why was he saying that they are not that good.....I am confused. Eventhough I am not blonde sometimes I wonder if it is somewhere down the line in the family genes....:Dunno:

[TSi+WRX]

Why does he always put my name in BOLD in the middle of his novels when I am wrong? :lol:
^ Nah, I always put fellow Forum brothers'/sisters' names in bold so that people don't get confused who's referring to what. :) The "quote" function is nice, but it's hard to pick up names when they're just written-in, otherwise. :)

Sorry, bro, I'm just a child of the BBS/mIRC generation. :o:lol:


TSi+WRX, someone has to keep me grounded when I start spouting off BS! Glad you're here!
^ Not at all, dude. Please don't see it as "correcting" you - it's more to supplement any information you may already have.

I don't know too much that's technical, and even when I do, the knowledge pool is rather shallow, but in so far as intakes and exhausts are concerned for our cars, I'm just lucky (or un-lucky :lol:) enough to have had to research through the issues in-depth, as I was myself very interested in them not too long ago.

I'm just glad to pass-along what I've learned through the days and hours of digging through past posts, as well as any hard-won/dollar-lost experiences that I've had, myself. Hopefully help others to not make my same mistakes. :tup:

----

SubieChik - Doh! I'm so sorry to have caused you such confusion! :o

Like brother ih8vtech13 said, my Winky has a (Perrin) Short-Ram.

I cite its negatives only in hopes of painting a complete and full picture for you.

I'm a scientist by trade and training (the latter for who knows how long, now! :o:lol::rolleyes:), so I instinctively point out both sides of the scenario.

My objective here is for you to make your own choice - to give you enough information of both the pros and cons that you can then debate-through, for yourself, what's important/best for you and your unique needs.

I got the Perrin because it was cheap (second-hand, through another LGTer) and because I liked the way it looked under the hood. :) I stayed with it because I'm addicted to the way it makes my induction noise more throaty (undoubtedly, ih8vtech13 is going to go to town misquoting and butchering this one :lol:). :tup:

To me, a guy who doesn't really "get on it" so much, especially off hot-temperature'ed stop-light stops (since I've got a way to monitor this via my Informeter), the sacrifices I make in terms of driveability/performance is not much of a problem at all (especially as I know that higher-up in the rev-range, also after the vehicle's moving and incoming air cools-off the intake charge, the Perrin actually does help "make power" with my current tune), and was an acceptable trade-off.

Whether this applies to you, with whatever intake you choose, will have to be a personal choice.

----

As for the AEM, it's also not without faults.

Once you've taken your stock intake airbox out, you'll be able to see into the cavity that it's left, and you'll also see how dirty that area gets. If you look there after having driven in a humid environment (rain, slush, etc.), you'll also see the accumulated, fresh, liquid/dirt there.

The first thing that comes to mind to many people when they think of true cold-air intakes is potential water-ingestion issues during foul-weather. However, I've yet to find this to be true, and I've lived in some rather rainy surroundings (nothing like Washington state, but still, seasonal rains that tend to drench the rather badly-drained downtown streets of Cleveland/Baltimore and the suburbs of Atlanta should have seen at least one of my slammed-to-the-ground, cold-air equipped rides suffer some kind of malfunction over the last 13+ years :eek:).

The potential is there, and that cannot be denied - but whether it's a true concern....that, to me, is a big unknown.

And as for the use of a bypass valve....I've heard both pros and cons about this, and I honestly cannot say that I have enough information, nor experience, to say anything conclusive here, one way or the other. :o

However, one thing that can't be debated is that your filter, located down there, is definitely going to see more wear-and-tear, as well as get dirtier, than that of the typical "short ram" setup, which sits much higher in the engine compartment ("over" that wheel-well gap, instead of "in" it). As-such, maintenance may be more of an issue.

I have no doubt that the power increase will be there - even some "cold air ducting" that David Buschur jury-rigged up for his own WRX TR showed tremendous improvements on the dyno (where he was seeing "heat-soak" issues of an aftermarket "short-ram" style intake on that vehicle), which would undoubtedly translate to real-world gains in street scenarios. As such, I truly believe that a true cold-air setup will net good improvements, even at just the typical "Stage II" level (i.e. without upgrading the turbo). But, of course, there's always a catch. ;)

[kagenmateer]

TSi+WRX- I listened intently and learned a lot. Thanks for the detail. You've confirmed my understanding of the AEM CAI, so that's what I'm going with.

[TSi+WRX]

^ NP - Just glad I helped, no need to thank me! :)

edmundu, who is *very* technically well-knowledged ( and a great guy to-boot :) ) wrote up a long post about the AEM CAI on .com - if you're looking to get this product, I'd highly recommend that you go over there and have a loook.

[SubieChik]

So here is the thing how come when I go to the AEM website to look at the CAI it offers for the LGT this is what it says:

"No products were found for your vehicle. However, we are continually developing new applications for our products. Click here (http://www.aempower.com/RDVehicle.aspx) if you would like to submit your vehicle for R&D testing of new applications. "

[TSi+WRX]

^ Unknown.....could be a delay in website updating?

[SubieChik]

^ Unknown.....could be a delay in website updating?

AEM sucks! :D Just kidding....they need to update it then...

[Bskey]

Ebay!

[SubieChik]

Ebay!

So the one on eBay is legit then??

[Bskey]

I haven't purchased it, but I wouldn't hesitate, provided the sellers feedback is good.

[SubieChik]

True true

[Bskey]

SubiChik, Do you have an AccessPort yet?

[SubieChik]

No but I really want one....I just don't have the money to dish...:scurred:

[Bskey]

That should be primanry, imho, to a CAI, because you'll need to tune for it, and some sort of engine managment is required for that, and the APv2 is tops.

[Dookie]

Am I not supposed to do that?!

Just play'n, the fathers of .org hated .com and in returned .com hated .org. If you mention .org over on .com you will get warned. That's why I threw up the warning to mock .com.:)

[Dookie]

Kevin has banned for posting this...

http://www.legacygt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=481

[Bskey]

It seems to be a very fine line there. I have never been warned, but that's because I keep the good stuff for over here.

[Dookie]

Same here. If I get banned then I wouldn't know what to do at work....:lol:

[Bskey]

^^ +1 :lol:

[TSi+WRX]

That should be primanry, imho, to a CAI, because you'll need to tune for it, and some sort of engine managment is required for that, and the APv2 is tops.

^ +1.

Go for the AccessPORT as your first-step upgrade.

Even if you just decide to run the off-the-shelf "Stage I" maps, it should, at the minimum, offer noticeable driveability improvements.

From there, look at your downstream piping - I honestly can't remember if y'all have an UP cat. If so, ditch that. Ditch, also, at least the first post-turbo cat. That'll open you up to take "Stage II" off-the-shelf maps.

In the mean time, just put a few dollars a day into a change jar, and before you know it, you'll have enough dough for the intake of your choice. However, as brother Bskey suggested, I'd also wait until you've accumulated enough dough in that jar to simultaneously either obtain a semi-custom map (that's already "tuned" for the intake of your choice), or, better yet, have saved enough to obtain either an "e-tune" or a live tune. This will not only help optimize your vehicle's powerband and performance, but will also serve as some "insurance" on air-fuel ratio safety.

:tup:

[SubieChik]

:confused: I have no clue what you guys are talking about. Haha. I don't know anything about maps....all I know is that after I pay $695 for an accessport I have to pay another couple hundred for a "map". I think that it should come with one....kinda like a two for one deal :) I always thought that it was ok to get an intake and just run it. My husband has had a cold air intake on every vehicle he has owned....granted they are all Acura and Hondas so I am sure that is a completely different situation cause I see a lot of cars with only a few things done and an intake being one of them, but that is why each car is different huh?? I guess I will just save a little bit from each paycheck until I have enough for an accessport. So I will notice a differnce even if I run a map on a stock system huh??

[TSi+WRX]

:confused: I have no clue what you guys are talking about. Haha.
Don't worry, no-one gets it right-off. :)


I don't know anything about maps....all I know is that after I pay $695 for an accessport I have to pay another couple hundred for a "map". I think that it should come with one....kinda like a two for one deal :)
You actually do get maps with the AccessPORT.

There are several different "off-the-shelf" maps (think of these as a new set of instructions for your ECU to obey) that are either pre-installed on your AccessPORT and/or can be downloaded from the Cobb Tuning website.

Custom (i.e. "e-tune," whereby your tuner supplies you with their custom baseline map or a known-values map - then you do a road/dyno pull while datalogging - then e-mail your datalog back to your tuner and he/she makes adjustments to your map and send the new one back to you - repeat as-necesssary to-finalize; or live - where the tuner is actually in the vehicle) and semi-custom (i.e. a map built around the accumulated average of other vehicles' that the tuner's tuned in the past, with similar upgrades as your vehicle) maps are what will cost you additional money, as that's the IP of the tuner, as well as requires additional time/effort to obtain.


I always thought that it was ok to get an intake and just run it. My husband has had a cold air intake on every vehicle he has owned....granted they are all Acura and Hondas so I am sure that is a completely different situation cause I see a lot of cars with only a few things done and an intake being one of them, but that is why each car is different huh??
Exactly - different cars behave differently. :)

For our turbocharged Scoobys, particularly due to that very sensitive MAF, things like aftermarket intakes and BOVs are considered more aural-pleasure modifications than true "power adders," at least until you've started to truly pursue bigger-power upgrades (i.e. new turbo, etc.)

But actually, on an otherwise stock LGT, it should be just fine to run *any* aftermarket intake.

The key here is *_otherwise stock_*. Don't worry too much about this factor with things like a cat-back exhaust - that shouldn't much matter at all - but anything else that might screw with your A/F ratios, such as utilizing an aftermarket engine-management program (i.e. a device like the AccessPORT) or significantly changing the pre-turbo "piping" can cause greater shifts in the A/F ratio than what your stock ECU can compensate for, and may run your vehicle closer to the danger zone.

A number of our brothers/sisters on .com have datalogged their otherwise stock LGTs with various aftermarket intakes - and though usually there is a noted increase in exhaust temperatures ( and this is even as-measured in the UP :eek: ) as well as slightly leaner A/F ratios (both of these observations make sense, not only relative to each other, but also in terms of such intakes helping to "add power"), none were judged to be truly worrisome.

If you want to run an aftermarket intake right-away, just stick to the stock ECU/engine-management for a while - and datalog a bit to insure that you're running within safe grounds. And remember that after you add aftermarket engine-management, you should either switch back to the stock airbox temporarily, until you've had a chance to seek a custom or semi-custom tune, or that you should take a proactive step and make sure that you already have such a map available or live-tune session scheduled.


So I will notice a differnce even if I run a map on a stock system huh??
^ Yes.

A part of what's so nifty about a custom or even semi-custom tune is that it not only increases your powerband, but it will also work to improve driveability.

Even though you're only going to be using "off-the-shelf" maps at the beginning, these are still extensively-researched maps based off years of hard-won experience by the good people at Cobb, and it will noticeably alter your vehicle's driving characteristics.

Most people, while not reporting a significant power increase with the off-the-shelf Cobb "Stage I" (i.e. just an AccessPORT enabled ECU reflash) map, they do confess to a noticeable alteration in driveability - for the better, of course. :)

Think of the AccessPORT as a gateway tool. ;)

----

Your other option would be to go with hardware (i.e. "piping") mods, first.

That's what I did, because, at the time I started modding my LGT, there was no local-area tuner for the vehicle (and I wanted a custom/live tune, right-off).

If you start replacing the UP, DP, cat-back, etc., before you do engine-management, you end up with power gains and powerband shifts that are typical of Cobb "Stage I" - so anywhichway you go, it's all about the same. However, this kind of hardware modification is "raw" - and your gains will neither peak as high as they would with engine-management, nor your powerband as smooth.

So why am I mentioning this to you?

Well, as-usual, I like to expose all available options - and, of course, the hardware costs are typically somewhat less than that of the jump to engine-management; particularly if the hardware is bought piecemeal or even second-hand, and if you self-wrench. :)

[Bskey]

^^ Yup, what he said. If you plan to keep the car for a long time, then you want to take the safer route, and start off with Engine Managment (AccessPort), as it will be safer for your engine when the E/M can compensate for changes as they take place. If you buy the A/P from TDC, they will give you their base maps with the A/P, which are known to be one of the best 'off the shelf' maps created for our cars.

[SubieChik]

So basically getting an accessport and doing the "off-the shelf" stage 1 map will do the same thing as having no accessport and replacing the exhaust piping (for a little less $$)?? I think I got ya :D Slowly but surely I think I am starting to get this. The funny thing is...I was a mechanic in the Air Force for 3 years. I went to a 4 month school with no prior knowledge and they slapped the name mechanic next to my name :) I recently was forced to switch jobs because my previous career field was going away. I must admitt though....I have a lot more knowledge than most average girls do. I can tell you the basics and how to fix somthing, I do my own oil changes/maintenance, but I haven't the slightest clue when it comes to tuners and what does what, what is needed to do what, and how to get it to do what.....:lol:

[Bskey]

I hadn't heard that replacing the pipes with catless is the same effect as an AP stage 1, but I dont doubt TSi's knowledge either. Personally i wouldn't take that route if I didn't have to, as you will notice more driveability with just the AP at first, and then can build from there, and decide on piping as you go and determine necessity. The AP is by far the best foundatinal launching point for performance mods to our LGT's, as they are entirely versitile, you can retune a TDC map for $25 when you get new mods, and it compensates for changes and protects your car's sensitive parts as you go. Plus, just the AP stage 1 off the shelf is grin-worthy! If you have any consideration for your warranty, the AP is a much more concealable and reversable mod to enjoy too.

[TSi+WRX]

^ No problem on the question/doubt, Bskey - it's only correct for anyone to want some back-up to that observation. :)

It's going to be buried DEEP in the past posts of .com, but if you dug for it, you should be able to find some past posts that have had people's dyno graphs/numbers which show a very close approximation of the two. However, even to my layman's eyes, it was still clear that the curve wasn't nearly as clean/favorable with the hardware-only mods, versus having EM-only (i.e. Cobb "Stage I" or PDXTuning "Stage 0").

I agree, the best and most effective route, for us, starts-off with proper engine-management .

Just wanted to put the other option out there. ;)

Oh, and that's a *GREAT* pick-up on the "conceability" as well as ease-of-"reversibility" of the AccessPORT modification. Especially with the v2 AccessPORT and its ability to download the precise stock vehicle ECU image for "backup" purposes. GREAT pickup! :D

[SubieChik]

Yea would have never though of that one either :rolleyes:

[kagenmateer]

Just play'n, the fathers of .org hated .com and in returned .com hated .org. If you mention .org over on .com you will get warned. That's why I threw up the warning to mock .com.:)

OIC!!

[kagenmateer]

Kevin has banned for posting this...

http://www.legacygt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=481

I don't understand why they would ban for that...?!?! :confused: :eek:

[kagenmateer]

...more good posts...I'm trying to tag along and keep up :)

[SubieChik]

...more good posts...I'm trying to tag along and keep up :)

It's hard.....we move at the speed of light in here :D

[Bskey]

ZoomZoom.........I guess an AWD Suby Turbo forum would go ZoomPshhhtZoomWhoooooo!

[SubieChik]

I would join that one:D

[Bskey]

You're in it! :D

[SubieChik]

Oh WooHoo!

[Dookie]

...more good posts...I'm trying to tag along and keep up :)

Welcome to the party, now roll in the keg.

[Dookie]

You're in it! :D

In what? :eek:

[Dookie]

Oh WooHoo!

What are you so happy about?:cool:

[SubieChik]

:eek2: Funny funny Dookie. Way to fix things :)

[Bskey]

She likes to be 'in' things. So what?

[Dookie]

I almost forgot what thread this was, it's Subiechics saying Hi thread.

[Dookie]

Hi Subiechic, welcome and I hope you enjoy the forum.:)

[Bskey]

Yeah, hey, we are glad to have you! I get a bit tired of Dooks all the time! Though I love him.....long time.

[ih8vtec13]

Kevin has banned for posting this...

http://www.legacygt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=481
The reason for this is that it is from HSPN, one of companies from the same owners this site and IWSTI.com. They get a little pissey over there when you post up something that could link their users to here. But you can post a link to any other car forum as long as it has nothing to do with here. I got a warning for using my old avitar from here over there, it basicaly said I <3 legacygt.org with the logo on it. I had it up for a few months before I got warned for spaming, yet they have not said anything to any other user about having their avitar to use as advertizing for a site or even users that have their names as a web address. Its really lame.

[ih8vtec13]

OK back on toppic.

A great place to start out modding is either wheels and tyres, brakes, or suspention. Summer is here get some summer rubber and some 18's and a set of springs and that should get you started off well. You could also go coilovers insted of springs if you have the extra cash to spend, I just got mine instaled today and so far I really like them. They are from Megan Racing BTW and you can expect a review of them soon, just let me get aligned and some more drive time first.

As for brakes, just go with some pads and maybe some SS lines. The stock rotors are good enough to use till they warp, then do an upgrade. The stock calipers are also really good, no need to upgrade them unless you are going to track the car. If you really feel the need to have nice lookin brakes, when you do the pads paint the calipers and do a set of DBA rotors and you are set.

Power is great, but once you add more you then start to notice that the handling and breaking are not as good as you thought.

[Dookie]

Yeah, hey, we are glad to have you! I get a bit tired of Dooks all the time! Though I love him.....long time.

http://www.landroverforums.com/upfiles/smiley/smiley31.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:void(opener.addSmiley('body1','http://www.landroverforums.com/upfiles/smiley/smiley31.gif')); self.focus();)



Ih8vtec13 - I couldn't have said it any better.:clap:


.

[SubieChik]

I already have 18s and my calipers are painted red. I have aftermarket pads and I have a good suspension I just want some lower springs....no coilovers defeats the whole purpose of having bilstein. Tinted my windows and added some specb decals (added 4.75 wHP) :lol: I think now I am going to save up for that accessport and that Rockford processor so I can get back to hearing some good sound....I miss it, I have never gone more than a month without having my speakers hooked up :rolleyes:

[Bu11dogg2]

hey... welcome!

[Dookie]

hey... welcome!

The party is almost over, welcome back.

[SubieChik]

Almost over?? :confused: :crying:

[Bu11dogg2]

The party is almost over, welcome back.

yeah.. been real busy lately.:(

[Bskey]

SubieChik, what Rockford processor are you talking about?

[SubieChik]

This one:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fxAXQhJoAJi/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=168450&I=5753SIXTY1 (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fxAXQhJoAJi/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=168450&I=5753SIXTY1)

or this one is better:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fxAXQhJoAJi/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=168450&I=5753SIXTY2 (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fxAXQhJoAJi/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=168450&I=5753SIXTY2)

[Bskey]

Yeah, that does look a lot like the JL Clean Sweep. I'd love to beef up the system, but have thus far focused more on performance then style. now I'm too broke to do the audio thing. I know it would be a $1500 minimum if I want to do it right.

[havanisda]

Check out this if u think an SPT intake is any good, its extensive testing on it done by Cobb tuning. http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32547&highlight=SPT+intake

[Drift Monkey]

SPT intake sucks...:lol:

[SubieDriver]

Check out this if u think an SPT intake is any good, its extensive testing on it done by Cobb tuning. http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32547&highlight=SPT+intake

Yeah, I yanked my SPT intake off after reading that last year. The previous owner of my car had installed it, and left it on when he sold it to me. It's been sitting in my storage room ever since. Anyone want it?

[havanisda]

Mines comin off 2 I'm goin w/K&N Typhoon, any1 have 1? likes/dislikes?