Perrin Panel, SPT or nothing

[havanisda]

Originally Posted by john

I think.

JOHN!!!

[kagenmateer]

To clarify from extensive research I did before purchasing my AEM CAI, the stock MAF sensor in the stock intake sits in what is essentially a secondary air intake chamber (for lack of a better term) free from significant air turbulance. Aftermarket intakes place the sensor directly into the initial and only intake chamber/tube, thus causing the sensor to inaccurately read from turbulant air. The Subaru MAF sensor is designed to read from more consistent, calmer air flow.

[TSi+WRX]

As the clan over here on .org probably knows, we've recently added an '09 FXT to our family, in replacement for Sara's '05 WRX, which went off-lease.

The FXT has just finished break-in (we don't drive much - it took nearly 2 months for us to put on the 1K miles , I'd been sooooooo itching to get under the car and do the first oil-change), and I'm still trying to gauge if I want to bother with "Stage I," which is likely as far as I'd ever go with this vehicle.

In doing the prep research, I've looked at the Cobb Map Notes, and for their OTS maps, they seem to have gotten tighter with regard to intake-tract modifications, and I don't know if this is because they're CYA'ing, or, alternatively, if it's just that Subaru's factory tune of the vehicles, '07+, is just that much more on the ragged edge, as it's rumored to be?

But whatever the case, Cobb now states, plainly, in their Map Notes that to utilize their off-the-shelf ("OTS") maps, one should not modify the intake tract in *ANY* way, and that includes the resonator/silencer as well as the filter, both of which, they warn, should be OEM and unmodified.

Cobb has, over the years, become more and more conservative in their "fine print" section - and I truly don't know if this is just a "CYA" response or, alternatively, if they, in having gathered more and more data-points over the years, have truly come to feel the way they do about these precautionary modification warnings due to what they've seen, with their own two eyes. But given what Cobb's official stance is on these modifications, as well as what we know of them from our own hobbyist-community data from the past, I'm, I guess, inclined to also err on the side of caution.


---

I'm still contemplating the model 003 ('09 FXT) V2 AccessPORT and "Stage I" for her FXT - if nothing else, if the rumors are true about the factory tune, it should make running the car harder, safer, overall, as well as make for a smoother overall driving experience (and the slight increase in performance certainly isn't something that I'd complain about ).....

But honestly, I'm still trying to figure out if the car doesn't already have enough grunt to satisfy our needs. The additional half-liter of displacement down-low and the convenience of SportShift has already made for a world of difference from the 2.0L WRX that we came from.

I may just end up pulling the resonator/silencer and putting in the Perrin panel, which is still sitting pretty, in its bag, in the back of my garage.

Dunno.

[kagenmateer]

Do eet!

[2.5sbd]

I just put on a cobb shorty CAI.I called to ask if the OTS map that I had already programed would be ok with this new CAI. They said yes that their intake works with all OTS cobb maps.
One thing to note about this intake is at half throttle it makes alot of noise. At WOT it make nice sounds though

[kagenmateer]

Please post pics of this intake. I wanna see what Cobb is okay with. Is this the one? Whether it is or not, please post some installed pics if you'd be so kind.

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by 2.5sbd

I just put on a cobb shorty CAI.I called to ask if the OTS map that I had already programed would be ok with this new CAI. They said yes that their intake works with all OTS cobb maps.
One thing to note about this intake is at half throttle it makes alot of noise. At WOT it make nice sounds though

^ Oops, I'd forgotten about that!

Thanks for that one, 2.5sbd.

Indeed, Cobb's always maintained the compatibility of *their* specific components. But being able to do so in-house, that's of little doubt, and I'd honestly be surprised if they didn't take that into account.

[2.5sbd]

PHP Code:

[quote=kagenmateer]Please post pics of this intake. I wanna see what Cobb is okay with. Is this the one?  Whether it is or not, please post some installed pics if you'd be so kind.[/quote] 


That the one. i bought it used and I am missing the support bracket and silicone tube.
I just removed the stock airbox and hooked it right to the stock piping

[2.5sbd]

[kagenmateer]

Does anyone have experience with seeing a CAI actually make a motor run lean on a Cobb OTS map?

[2.5sbd]

I don't know if its the extra sound feed back fooliing me or it really puts down extra power but this seems to be an upgrade from the K&N panel filter that was previously on.

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by kagenmateer

Does anyone have experience with seeing a CAI actually make a motor run lean on a Cobb OTS map?

^ Search for the SPT intake posts on .com - Cobb documented MAF-inversions and other weird behavior, on actual dyno runs, with datalogs to prove it all.

It's from a couple of years back, soon after the SPT short-ram style intake came online and they (SPT) started making their ridiculous claims. Some in the community were skeptical of what several tuners had then counter-claimed, and demanded proof.

[kagenmateer]

Interesting. My biggest regret has been my AEM CAI, and I've been too stubborn to go back after putting the money and energy into installing it. I sincerely hope it pays off some day.

I have a TDC e-tune and I told them all about my CAI and the map they sent me is supposedly tuned for one. Luckily I got my map years ago before the company went to ****.

[havanisda]

My original map is from TDC 2. Mike Kinsman was the tuner @ the time and now my current map is from him also but he's w/Tuning Alliance now.

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by kagenmateer

Interesting. My biggest regret has been my AEM CAI, and I've been too stubborn to go back after putting the money and energy into installing it. I sincerely hope it pays off some day.

^ Why the heartache?

[kagenmateer]

If I had the stock air box, I'd be worry-free with the stock Cobb map. For now. Instead, I have a TDC tune that I HOPE isn't damaging my motor. Just a little nagging worry in the back of my head. I really can't wait to hit stage 2 and get a custom tune from a talented, reputable tuner. My problem is, I keep buying other crap... I don't know if I'll ever get to stage 2.

[havanisda]

+1 If u add up everything in my sig it's over $2500. I still have 2 buy a Braille batt ($150) VB mod ($1k) DP ($575+install) c/o's ($1500+install) sways ($380) endlinks ($200) Cusco braces ($300) 18" wheels & tires ($1k) & a Protune ($500+?). So figure another $6k @ least.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Car guy/gal's curse. Can't do anything about it, just gotta live with it.

It's either upgrading or fixing, it's a continuing cycle that'll never end.

If we were smart, we'd have stayed stock!

Originally Posted by kagenmateer

If I had the stock air box, I'd be worry-free with the stock Cobb map. For now. Instead, I have a TDC tune that I HOPE isn't damaging my motor. Just a little nagging worry in the back of my head. I really can't wait to hit stage 2 and get a custom tune from a talented, reputable tuner. My problem is, I keep buying other crap... I don't know if I'll ever get to stage 2.

^ But with *any* tune, there's a degree of risk. Remember that LittleBlueGT on .com blew his first motor while running just +2 degrees of dynamic advance....

I agree, a more "reputable" tuner would/should definitely help us sleep easier at night, but no matter what, it's still going to be a bit of a risk.

I'd say to pull the box and just reflash to OTS Cobb Stage II, but given what many have said of Cobb's OTS maps, I honestly don't know if I could sleep easy with that, either.

I wonder how much SurgeLine (Tim Bailey and Jon - the latter of TDC, back in its heyday) charges for an "e-tune/remote-tune?"

This way, you could either -

(A) Take the airbox back-to-stock, and then reflash to OTS Cobb Stage II, and then do the "e-tune/remote-tune."

- or -

(B) Have either of those two either confirm - or refine, if-necessary - your current tune with the AEM CAI.

----

My only other suggestion is to datalog, and then post it to the LegacyGT.com "Tuning" sub-Forum, and ask for an open critique of how things look.

[havanisda]

Honestly I don't think it's gonna be that different.
Back in the day when it was basically just TDC & PDX emailin maps I heard good things from both. People like AKLGT even had maps from both tuners and said she liked both, however there's a big price difference.
I think u'll see a bigger difference in tuners when u Protune. You're there in person and u see how much time they put in2 your car or if they just "rush" u thru cuz they have a full calendar that day. That's when people skills comes in2 play and if it's a good experience that's what customers will remember.

[kagenmateer]

^^^ Interesting.

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

My only other suggestion is to datalog, and then post it to the LegacyGT.com "Tuning" sub-Forum, and ask for an open critique of how things look.

I would if my IP weren't banned.