New here, Downpipe/stage two question

[Sean07LGT]

I have recently bought an 07 Legacy GT manual trans. I'm looking into going stage two and I know that I need a downpipe and some kind of retune. The downpipe I'm looking at is the Invidia V3 uncatted because I will have to switch back for smog testing in california regardless of high flow cats(not a problem for me I'm an auto tech in training) plus I'll save some money on the part and gain some extra power. What are my options so far as retuning for stage two besides the AP or a dyno tune? I'm trying to save money while gaining the most power
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated

[kagenmateer]

You can do your own tuning with a laptop and a tactrix cable. Look into "opensource tuning". Lots of info about it on legacygt.com

And yes, you'll need a catless downpipe for stage 2.

[blk2.5GT]

So if I put on a CNT catted DP with my Turbo XS up and Magnaflow CBE and reflash to stage II with my AP, it's not a stage II?

[john]

I ran a Cobb stage 2 map on my car when the only mod was a catback exhaust. $0.02 worth.

[blk2.5GT]

I understand all of the options such as: Opensource, AP, Infamous, Protune etc. I thought a "True Stage II" was just a Cobb AP, and a turboback. Nothing specific in regard to the TBE. I know that Cobb would like you to have their products used and that's what the maps are tune for, but what really me defines a "Stage II"? I just need a DP, thats why I'm asking.

[blk2.5GT]

Damnit John, your avatar is throwing me off...I like the other one better...LOL

[john]

:-)

Is this better?

[kagenmateer]

Originally Posted by blk2.5GT

So if I put on a CNT catted DP with my Turbo XS up and Magnaflow CBE and reflash to stage II with my AP, it's not a stage II?

Does that leave you with just the one cat in the DP, and if so, is it high-flow? Assuming it is, then I'd say you'd be considered stage 2.

[TSi+WRX]

As with many folks, I default to the "Stage" terminology, simply because everyone else is doing it. Personally, I don't like that kind of terminology, since it's so variable. Here's a historically accurate perspective:

Subarus have pretty much grown up with Cobb Tuning's "Stages" as its definitive vocabulary. However, as you can well imagine, not all Vendors, shops, or other tuners subscribed to this same - and rather arbitrary - set of words. When the BL/BP Legacy 2.5GTs were new, back in 2004/2005, two other very popular and very well-known tuning houses, Vishnu and PDXTuning, both used very different "Stage" nomenclature: so different that, had you been speaking of your car's "Stage" with another hobbyist who had his vehicle done in another one of those shops, the two of you could well talking of completely different beasts.

Don't believe me? Log on to .com and run a search for Vishnu's and PDXTuning's "Stages."

Yet another reason why I dislike the "Stage" nomenclature is because it allows for too much imprecision, even when you're speaking of just one tuner/Vendor/shop's use of the terms. Cobb is the best example of this, because by-Hoyle, their words should "define" Subaru "Staging."

Again, let's illustrate with history.

Taking a step back to late-2004/early-2005. Cobb's AccessPORT was then one of only two tuning options available (as OpenSource tuning for the BL/BP was still in its infancy, and aside from a handful of truly hardcore enthusiasts, the v1.x OpenPort cable was only really routinely used for datalogging, mainly paired with ECUExplorer). A popular choice that many, including myself, made at the time was to simply replace the first of the two DP cat. converters with an aftermarket pipe which removed that restriction while allowing the user to retain the second post-DP cat., ostensibly to allow for at least one level of refinement and ride comfort for their passengers: to not have to worry about that distinctive "cat(less) odor." Certainly, use of what was thus known as the "shorty" style DP came at the expense of a few horses (in comparing my vehicle with one which had a similar tune, tuned by the same tuner, on the same dyno, and tuned on a similar day [unfortunately, that was as close as it could get] as mine, but with a full-length non-catted DP, I saw a loss of approx. 15/15 wHP/wTQ; this was on a dyno on which stock '04/'05 STis ran at a consistent 200/200 wHP/wTQ]), but at the time, even Cobb said that this modification met their minimum criteria for "Stage II," albeit would not, of-course, see optimal power output.

At that time, in their official product literature, "Stage II" "required" a fully catless turbo-back exhaust.

Over the course of time, Cobb modified their community recommendation to require a full-length non-catted downpipe: but not of a post-cat solution.

The only thing that has ever remained the same was their strong caution and consistent requirement that things on the intake side of the equation be kept fully stock.

[Dntk]

I'm a firm believer that TSI + WRX has way to much time on his hands

[TSi+WRX]

^ And you would be right!

[brilliant sleeper]

Originally Posted by Dntk

I'm a firm believer that TSI + WRX has way to much time on his hands

.. gotta give him credit cause he practically responds with informative short stories.

[kagenmateer]

This forum is blessed to have someone take so much time for us.

[TSi+WRX]

^ :blush:

I'm blessed to have a friendly place to go to.

Cue Cheers intro!

[Dookie]

Awwwww.....we need a big group forum hug.

[kagenmateer]

[TSi+WRX]

^

[brilliant sleeper]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

^ :blush:

I'm blessed to have a friendly place to go to.

Cue Cheers intro!

When .com gets to rough I come here for comfort . I joined here first anyway