New Spec B owner

[rtbrjason]

Hello all.. I'm jason from the upstate/western NY area..

I recently traded in my 06 Ion Redline for an 07 LGT with 5EAT and nav.

I only had that for about 2 weeks before trading it in for an 08 Spec B. It's a DGM spoilerless. Pretty happy with it.. Wish it had a little more power, but looking forward to seeing how it does with Stage 1 and maybe even 2.

Pics: http://rtbr.com/Other/Images/Autos/specb/SpecB.html

[SubieChik]

Welcome. I am from Victor which is about 15 minutes from Rochester. My Grandmother lives on Ridge road and I have a lot of friends that stay near Park Ave. I don't live there right now though cause I am currently in the military. Everytime I go home I love it cause there are no GTs in the area so I get a lot of looks Ok.....just wanted to let you know that I am a fellow NYer at heart eventhough I am not there

[TSi+WRX]

Welcome.

A local went from an Ion Redline to a '06 WRX, Stage II, and was completely satisfied with the performance margin of the latter over the former - as the LGT will respond similarly to upgrades in the fashion of the 2.5L Imprezas, you should be plenty happy, even with the automatic taking its toll on straight-line zip.

[rtbrjason]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

Welcome.

A local went from an Ion Redline to a '06 WRX, Stage II, and was completely satisfied with the performance margin of the latter over the former - as the LGT will respond similarly to upgrades in the fashion of the 2.5L Imprezas, you should be plenty happy, even with the automatic taking its toll on straight-line zip.

I am really happy with the overall experience with the car. Handling and feel on the road is top notch. Just wish it had a bit more pull.

I had the redline dyno'd stock and it was putting down 224whp/195wtq. I think combined with the lighter weight it was a bit quicker. I'm expecting some tuning on the spec b to make it considerably quicker than the redline though.

[havanisda]

From what I've read Redlines are claimed by GM to make 205 hp @ the crank and u dynoed it @ 19 more than that @ the wheels?

[SubieChik]

The GT is definately quicker.... I know 2 people with Redlines and I have raced one.

Havansida the Redline has the same engine as the Cobalt SS (Supercharged 2.0-liter I-4; 205-hp; 200 lb-ft torque) , so you would be right. My other friend just traded her SS for a Mazdaspeed 3. She was putting down 260whp but she had a few upgrades on her car.

Plus rtbrjason, you have to remember that you went from a supercharger to a turbo, two different concepts. I'm sure the quickness that you feel you are lacking is due to the fact that you are used to the supercharger power being right there as you push the as pedal. The lack of the quick response from the turbo will sure be made up in top end though cause superchargers lack there.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Remember, too, y'all, that rtbrjason's Redline may have been upgraded - thus those higher readings at the wheels.

Also, it's impossible to judge anything from any dyno numbers - each dyno will read differently from another, instead, the question should be asked of rtbrjason should be: "what does a completely stock Redline read on said dyno," and, for-reference, also what some standard "benchmarks" read, such as a bone-stock, say, '04-'05 STi or Evo IX/MR?

Overall, rtbrjason, the LGTs are limited by our small factory turbos. While our torque figures can be most impressive, particularly down-low, with a few changes to post-turbo piping and "a tune," the small turbo simply runs out of steam up-top, and this is most exaggerated by highway-speed pulls as well as that (lack of) final "push" at the quarter.

However, even given the limitations of the factory turbo, "Stage II" will still net you performance that's the equal, in terms of straight-line, of a stock STi. On a dyno that puts a stock, unmodified, STi at 200/200 (wHP/wTQ), my "Stage II (and slightly +)" 5MT puts down nearly 30 more horses and 80 more torque over said numbers. Combined with the small difference in vehicle weights, more favorable (0-60, with one less shift) gearing, better high-speed aerodynamics, and it's easy to see why, on any Subaru enthusiast Forum, you'll see stock or even "Stage I" STi drivers saying that they've often been surprised by "Stage II," stock-appearing, Legacys.

Even upgraded, though, the Legacy may not "feel" as fast as a comparable Ion Redline - or even STi, for that matter.

A big part of this will be due to the heavy cabin insulation on the LGT, as well as its overall "quieter" nature. Remember, Subaru designed this vehicle as a competitor to the Camry and Accord, and as-such, it's "family oriented" legacy (sorry, no pun intended) will mean that any of the "enthusiast" noises are rather muted.

To-wit:

I came to the LGT from a 300 wHP/wTQ front-drive Talon, with fully supported EvoIII 16G. She'll run a 12.7 in the quarter, on a crappy launch, all-season street-tires, and nearly 200 lbs. of rear-biased weight (sound system) in the hatch.

When I test-drove the Legacy, my immediate impression was that for a family-sedan of its size and weight, she's actually pretty fun. Good pep, particularly in the lower gears - then, I looked down at the speedo, and was agast that I was going that fast, on a surface street where I knew that enforcement was heavy. The thing is, the Legacy, particularly stock and unmodified, can build speed quite easily, without you noticing. Even though, at that time, the Legacy was totally stock, I still had the feeling that it was easily a match for my Talon, in terms of a quick sprint to, say, 60 MPH, particularly given the traction advantages of AWD.

"Stage II," she'll now destroy my Talon, in terms of that quick sprint to 60. It's not even close - the Talon just doesn't have the necessary grip.

On the highway, it's a different story.....the LGT's small turbo, it just runs out of steam, and until you remove this bottleneck, that's just the way it's going to be.

[SubieChik]

^^ He said those were stock dyno numbers.

[SubieChik]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

^ Remember, too, y'all, that rtbrjason's Redline may have been upgraded - thus those higher readings at the wheels.

Originally Posted by rtbrjason

I had the redline dyno'd stock and it was putting down 224whp/195wtq.

Obviously he would be putting down higher numbers if it was modified But he was talking stock.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Yikes! Indeed, I'd missed that!

Thanks for the correction!

That's either a tremedously factory under-rated car, or, alternatively, a very, very generous dyno......

So, I guess, the question to rtbrjason would be -> what does a factory-stock '04-'05 STi put down on that dyno? or failing that, how about, say, an Evo IX or MR?

[rtbrjason]

The car is rated at 205/200 from the factory yes.

Most everyone dynoing theirs stock are seeing at least 205 at the wheels for hp. More are seeing numbers similar to mine (224/195).

I'm still pretty confident the redline was at least a bit quicker. It makes sense also; Similar wheel hp to what I expect the LGT/Spec makes and considerably less weight.

[rtbrjason]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

On the highway, it's a different story.....the LGT's small turbo, it just runs out of steam, and until you remove this bottleneck, that's just the way it's going to be.

Thanks for all the insight. The pull on the highway is definitely part of what I'm talking about. Once you're going it just doesn't have the grunt I guess. It still has some power for passing just not what I expected I suppose.

At this point the plan is to start with an AP and stage 1. From there I might look into a downpipe and stage 2. I might look into and intake/larger TMIC and a pro-tune if that's still not enough

[rtbrjason]

Here are a couple links for those interested.

This one is me.. http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/438436-post50.html

This is a thread with everyones dyno numbers. Some of these are modded but you can see pretty much everyone puts down more than it is rated for stock. http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/...arts-only.html

[Dookie]

Originally Posted by SubieChik

The GT is definately quicker.... I know 2 people with Redlines and I have raced one.

Havansida the Redline has the same engine as the Cobalt SS (Supercharged 2.0-liter I-4; 205-hp; 200 lb-ft torque) , so you would be right. My other friend just traded her SS for a Mazdaspeed 3. She was putting down 260whp but she had a few upgrades on her car.

Plus rtbrjason, you have to remember that you went from a supercharger to a turbo, two different concepts. I'm sure the quickness that you feel you are lacking is due to the fact that you are used to the supercharger power being right there as you push the as pedal. The lack of the quick response from the turbo will sure be made up in top end though cause superchargers lack there.

OMG I love it when you talk like that. You sure you don't want a 2nd husband.

[TSi+WRX]

rtbrjason - Nice! It's cool to see cars that are "underrated" from the factory. I think that we all wish that to be the case of our rides, whatever they are.

BTW, what kind of numbers do the Ion Redline put down, in terms of 0-60 and the quarter-mile strip?

Also, was your Ion an automatic? - in terms of the comparison to your current LGT, that is. And how are you launching your LGT, now?

Originally Posted by rtbrjason

Thanks for all the insight. The pull on the highway is definitely part of what I'm talking about. Once you're going it just doesn't have the grunt I guess. It still has some power for passing just not what I expected I suppose.

In addition to the turbo running out of steam "up top," remember too that fuel quality as well as weather conditions (leading to heat-soak of the intercooler, as well as potential increases of IAT [Intake Air Temperature], which the LGT monitors rigorously in order to prevent knocking) can greatly affect the performance of the LGT.

Also, with your LGT being second-hand, be sure to datalog her at your earliest convenience. It'll be good to just be sure that she's running properly - as strong as can be, in "stock" form.

At this point the plan is to start with an AP and stage 1. From there I might look into a downpipe and stage 2. I might look into and intake/larger TMIC and a pro-tune if that's still not enough

Stage I may not be much of a difference - it does create a small leftward shift of the powerband as well as fattens it overall, but it's not a drastic bump. The true performance difference/jump comes with Stage II.

For now, hold-off on the intake. Modern FI Scoobys are strange beasts - the factory intake is actually *NOT* a bottleneck, in terms of power production (at least until you're ready to step up to a bigger turbo), and is actually very, very, very well-engineered, and provides the *best* intake-temperature management possible. Most of us here, who have intakes, actually are simply addicted to the sounds they make, as they truly do not add much power, if at all, to a Stage II vehicle, and many of today's popular options REQUIRES optimization, via a custom-to-vehicle tune, in order to operate within proper AFR safety margins.

[SubieChik]

Originally Posted by Dookie

OMG I love it when you talk like that. You sure you don't want a 2nd husband.

I know And I don't think my husband would like to share

[han]

Welcome to the ORG!!

It's been a while since i read tsi+wrx's long posts.

I dont know how Stage I feels, but Stage II is very good.

[rtbrjason]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

rtbrjason - Nice! It's cool to see cars that are "underrated" from the factory. I think that we all wish that to be the case of our rides, whatever they are.

BTW, what kind of numbers do the Ion Redline put down, in terms of 0-60 and the quarter-mile strip?

Also, was your Ion an automatic? - in terms of the comparison to your current LGT, that is. And how are you launching your LGT, now?

All redlines are a 5spd manual Getrag transmission. Similar to that found in the Saab 9-3.

Low to mid 14s in the quarter is common. I've not seen enough slips to know for sure but mid 2s in the 0-60 seems about right.

I've had a hard time with launching. With the redline it was goose it and let the clutch out. Squeal and peel launches. The Spec B doesn't do that I've learned

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

Stage I may not be much of a difference - it does create a small leftward shift of the powerband as well as fattens it overall, but it's not a drastic bump. The true performance difference/jump comes with Stage II.

For now, hold-off on the intake. Modern FI Scoobys are strange beasts - the factory intake is actually *NOT* a bottleneck, in terms of power production (at least until you're ready to step up to a bigger turbo), and is actually very, very, very well-engineered, and provides the *best* intake-temperature management possible. Most of us here, who have intakes, actually are simply addicted to the sounds they make, as they truly do not add much power, if at all, to a Stage II vehicle, and many of today's popular options REQUIRES optimization, via a custom-to-vehicle tune, in order to operate within proper AFR safety margins.

I will definitely hold off on the intake a while. I love the sound it makes. I did remove the intake resonator. Hopefully that won't create any issues.

I plan to get the AP asap, and have yet to decide on the stage 2. I might want to keep my warranty for more than 3 or 4k miles

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

Also, with your LGT being second-hand, be sure to datalog her at your earliest convenience. It'll be good to just be sure that she's running properly - as strong as can be, in "stock" form.

I originally bought an 07 LGT 5EAT. I traded it in within 10 days for a brand new 08 Spec B. It was one of 2 options for me to get an LGT with a manual. The 5EAT was definitely too slow and not much fun to drive.

[havanisda]

Originally Posted by SubieChik

I know And I don't think my husband would like to share

Dooks u can't satisfy 1 woman now u wanna try 2?

[SubieChik]